Tom Uren and Amberleigh Jack talk about First Wap, a Jakarta-based company that is selling surveillance-as-a-service. The good news is that it appears that government and media attention has had an impact on high-profile spyware vendors like NSO Group. The bad news is that these smaller players are flying under the radar and aren’t afraid of selling to sketchy customers.

They also talk about how the Chinese government has harnessed the power of its exploit development community with hacking contests.